The registered bundle contained the official valuation report done at close of tender. (TAB 5)
Once again we have been served with a worthless document high on words and devoid of any actual computation or
We still do not know on what basis the RP - or even this particular valuation - was derived. There are no calculations, no information on which sites it based it's comparison method of valuation. This Valuer didn't even include such basic information such as plot ratio. It gives the Total Strata Area as if it were important. The Total Strata Area (the 560 unit area) is not part of any calculation determining the RP. It is only used when determining the sales proceeds/unit.
Indeed, I queried the MA* (see update below) at the second session of the 2nd SP Meeting whether the Valuer used an existing plot ratio of 1.71 or 1.55 (as shown on the MA's price analysis slide) and he couldn't give me an answer. Did he not think to ask? Did he not want to tell? Well, this valuation doesn't give an answer either.
So, if the valuer used the estimated existing plot ratio of 1.55, doesn't it follow that this valuation is also just an estimate?
If so, then what is the true valuation when the correct development baseline is used?
How are we to know whether the correct or estimated existing plot ratio was used in this report?
So, if the valuer used the estimated existing plot ratio of 1.55, doesn't it follow that this valuation is also just an estimate?
If so, then what is the true valuation when the correct development baseline is used?
How are we to know whether the correct or estimated existing plot ratio was used in this report?
" For the purpose of this report, the Direct Comparison Approach is adopted to determine the open market value with the Residual Approach as cross-check'
Properties considered in it's direct Comparison Approach: NONE LISTED
Residual Approach crosscheck: NONE GIVEN
Residual Approach crosscheck: NONE GIVEN
Was our SC sleeping at the wheel again or did they even think to ask for the RLV. Shame on them for delivering us such an insubstantial report. In this day and age of informed owners - we deserve better. This report should have been thrown back in their faces.
This 'independent' Valuation was the last chance to see how TC was valued, and it failed miserably. The majority are happy with an unsupported RP and the sales proceeds from the sale.
I have said it before and I'll say it again - the sale is unstoppable regardless of all the mis-steps, bloopers, stonewalling and non-transparency. In the end it is typical of most collective sales with only a tiny minority of people who actually care about the details.
Alas, the residual land valuation should not have been a detail hidden from owners since day 1. It is the cornerstone of a collective sale. The reason why it was such a guarded secret, never to be revealed, was because we 'simple' owners would then become 'informed'. Marketing agents do not like informed owners, it makes their job so much more difficult.
UPDATE
Looking at the STB website and the Form 21 for Application for the purpose of a Collective Sale:-
How could he have stood there and tell me he didn't know?
I have said it before and I'll say it again - the sale is unstoppable regardless of all the mis-steps, bloopers, stonewalling and non-transparency. In the end it is typical of most collective sales with only a tiny minority of people who actually care about the details.
Alas, the residual land valuation should not have been a detail hidden from owners since day 1. It is the cornerstone of a collective sale. The reason why it was such a guarded secret, never to be revealed, was because we 'simple' owners would then become 'informed'. Marketing agents do not like informed owners, it makes their job so much more difficult.
UPDATE
Looking at the STB website and the Form 21 for Application for the purpose of a Collective Sale:-
So, the MA has to furnish supporting evidence and details on CALCULATION .. in other words the Valuers RLV...... to the STB. So how could he claim ignorance of the baseline plot ratio used? He must be in possession of the full calculation if he is to make a proper application for sale at the STB.
How could he have stood there and tell me he didn't know?
The RLV my friend, is as good as telling you the probability of Chelsea winning last years EPL.
ReplyDeleteThe bid has gone out and come back, and sheep have come home, and youre still thinking about whether you locked the gates.
If i am not wrong, you should be the ONLY person in TC who is interested in how they derive the valuation,..if nothing else just to see how far off your calculation is from people who make a living doing valuations. For me, one can use whatever methods to value something,...from the easiest 'pluck from air' to complex mathematical modelling and calculations...end of the day, the MARKET is the still the BEST VALUER...and the market has already spoken on tender closing day. You can do whatever calculation u want and come up with the theoretical value, if no one buys, the practical value is as good as 0.
ReplyDeleteNo, there are a few more believe me. I am the ONLY one with a blog and a voice.
Delete83% obviously couldn't care less if the figure came from the fairies. I dont believe in fairies.
So your "dreamy" RLV is not a fairy tale, and the current $970m bid is. I'm not sure if you're living in this world or another, actually.
DeleteNo worries lady, we await for you to spearhead the court case once again.
DeleteGreed knows no bounds.
DeleteI would like to ask the blogger two honest questions which is,
1stly, do you think we can demand higher than what it is now given that only one developer bidded?
2ndly, is 1.7 Mil not enough for you?
I don't think money is ever enough. But given this time and day. I think for a big plot like TC, 1.7mil is definitely good enough.
2.4 - its not about $1.7m or $2m or 2.5m, the blogger just does not want the estate to go enbloc regardless.
DeleteNo worries. when they come up with the LUP figure, you will know what a fresh 99 year land which TC sits on is worth...from there, you can work out what is TC's actual current value. That one no one can quibble...its done by the government chief valuer. I think you should focus more on that rather than your little academic exercise.
ReplyDeleteAt this stage no one is interested in your RLV lah. We have heard enough from you and it's kinda of getting boring. All are more interested in the LUP. You can save yr breath.
ReplyDeleteValuation report without permitted plot ratio ? Its a joke in surveyor industry.
ReplyDeleteU can complain to SISV,sg instiitute of surveyors n valuer, or write to UK RICS asking should a permitted maximum proposed development included in report.
2.
Comparsion method.
Valuer should give few en blok or land sales transactions. Then compare the ppr,per plot ratio price.
3.residual method.
Valuer normally will not list in,val report. But sale comm can give a slides presentation to explain.
Valuation shouls not be mysterious or magic. All can be explainable,though u cannot get every one agree on each figures.
But,every one must agree willing on few basic facts,eg site area,future max n permittted plot ration【subject to height or other restrictions】,proposed uses,DC .
What is the big fuss over this thing RLV..just ask yourself these questions: (i) if you want to sell your unit individually in the open mkt, does the valuer do complex mathematical calculations to derive the value of your unit?, (ii) even if valuation of TC is $1bil or $100bil, it means nothing if there are no bidders, correct?? (iii) is'nt the same method/procedure of valuation done for the other en blocs too???
ReplyDeleteI despair.
DeleteSelling land requires RLV
Selling your unit individually does not.
We sold our land not units.
Same for the other en blocs. Sold land not units. So just keep the shut out
DeleteI would like to ask the blog owner. If yr RLV is $2M and we put this as our RP for the tender. Do you think we will get any bidder ? Will you be happy if no one submit the bid ?
DeleteOf course you despair. One less excuse to bring this up to court.
DeleteActually how much is then considered a fair value for TC? I mean do you really expect 2mil and above for TC even if the calculation value is not the most accurate.
ReplyDeletetransparency,...valuation,...what next?..i can sense your desperation in trying to grab onto something...anything..just to keep the de facto minority blog chugging along. the points you raise thus far are essentially non issues and would not stop the sale. more of a distraction..To really stop the sale, you just need to pray hard the LUP is more than what was specified by developer and the sale will be aborted..heck..u don't even need to pray too hard as there is a good chance the LUP will cross the red line and your wish will come true. Don't really need to waste time talking about all these frivolous issues..
ReplyDeleteThe figure is not the concern. The main concern is how you get the market value.
ReplyDeleteJust like the maths in school. Teachers look at the logic. not the end result.
B. I am not happy to know that valuer dare not state the maximum plot ratio WHEN TC redeveloped,under current rule n regulation.
Does valuer really know how to get the plot ratio?
U can know more of valuation of development here.
http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/professional-guidance/information-papers/valuation-of-development-land-1st-edition/
When sg under UK rule,all valuers under RICS.
But teacher told me I will earn average $5k a month when I graduated.
DeleteI applied 50 jobs and only got one job offer and $1k a month.
Wake up busybody. Time to get out of the classroom and into the REAL world.
True. You can dream of marrying a prince charming but when you wake up, you realised that you are lucky someone wants to marry you. We are lucky that the bid that came in was above RP and valuation. Heard FR didn't go thru because bid may be above RP but below valuation. What's the point of demanding high valuation but no bid. Valuation is just a guideline, important thing is someone wants to buy your property.
Delete
ReplyDeleteIf strata title owner do not know maximum plot ratio ,how can they know the valuation is reliable?
Read how lawyer says about GROSS PLOT RATIO,.
one word,very important.
QUOTE,
Reserve price in the Collective Sale Agreement (CSA)
CSC should propose a reserve price in the CSA taking into consideration a myriad of factors including but not limited to development gross plot ratio, development baseline, special height controls (if any), lease top-up premium (if any) and general market conditions.
https://dentons.rodyk.com/en/insights/alerts/2016/july/27/starting-an-en-bloc-sale-salient-issues-to-consider
If the LUP is higher, then all the better for Sim Lian to have gotten the deal at a lower price. So what's the issue here?
ReplyDeleteTC residents, be grateful. Our price is above the RP and above the valuation altho one bid. Look at Florence Regency. Many bids but all below valuation. Many had expected d site cld fetch over 650m but in the end bids were less than the 629 valuation. Think again
ReplyDeleteDon't be silly people. End of the day it's not the MA/SC/Lawyer/Valuer who decide how much we can sell on enbloc. It's the MARKET who calls the shot. I know the market price for my unit if selling individually, is $900k but I want $1.3M. Can the blog owner or any monority get a buyer at my asking price if this round failed ? I will willing to cover you above market price referal fee. This is the chance to prove how good you really are. Deal ?
ReplyDeletei hv sent u a post about valuation. i suggested valuer should submit the report BEFORE close of tender undrr sealed envelop n to be open after all tenders open.
ReplyDeleteAll info include the valuation should be confidential,especially to tenders.
i am NOT refer to any TC valuer.
if valuer knows the tender figuers,valuer may give a figure to let the deal go through.
Valuer may either want to sink the deal or does not want to be sued by any SP,by giving a higher figurer than higest bid.
2. this HC case support my worry.
I QUOTE the case report,
43 There were two other points which Mr Murugaiyan【objector lawyer】 raised in relation to the valuation by Mr Tan【majority valuer】. First, he submitted that this valuation was done after the amount of Limau’s bid was known and it was too much of a coincidence that the valuation amount was exactly the same figure as Limau’s bid. His other submission was that no independent valuation had been obtained prior to the tender exercise.
44 On the first point, Mr Tan had said in cross-examination (NE 125) that he was not told what the sale price or reserve price was. It was not suggested to him that he had lied.
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/free-law/high-court-judgments/22294-koh-gek-hwa-v-yang-hwai-ming-and-another
You cannot imagine valuer job is so easy .He used DC table as reference.
ReplyDeleteTouch wood. Next round TC must get a really good valuer .
2.You cannot rely on DC table to get current market value ,which is usually half of market value.pl see what learned judge below says .
3.However,you can use DC table to get relative value of the subject .For example .You can use sale of Euno s Ville to get value of TC ,by reference to DC table .
4.
I quote from High Court report ,
The Development Charge Rate Issue
36 Mr Tan had valued Dragon Court at $12.9 million. Mr Lim had valued it at $16,030,000.
37 In order to support his valuation, Mr Lim referred to the use of Development Charge rates and in particular the relevant Development Charge rate for the Holland Road area. The Development Charge rate applicable to an area represented half the average value of land in that area.
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/free-law/high-court-judgments/22294-koh-gek-hwa-v-yang-hwai-ming-and-another
My point is we have respect professional but not respect them blindly .