I want to state up front that I DO NOT KNOW what happens at mediation anymore than you do. All I can do is look at the books and see what is written there.Mediation is 'private & confidential, and no transcript or audio visual recording will be made during the session'. We will never know what goes on behind the closed doors.
But judging from conversations I've had, the STB is just a clearing house and precious little mediation gets done. There are 2 set mediations - though the Board can stop proceedings at any time within a maximum timeframe of 60 days. It's just a formality, nothing gets resolved. The STB Board members are volunteers with regular day jobs - so they will make the hearing dates in accordance to their own timetables. There are 3 members assigned to each Board.
Resolution only comes in the form of a)Withdrawal of objections or b) High Court.
LTSA PART VA(2010)
STB Powers Mediation
From the STB website:
- Objectors can represent themselves in person or have a lawyer present or such other person as the Board may allow
MAKING AN OBJECTION AT THE STB IS FREE - objectors do not have to pay the STB fee imposed on objections under BMSM ( leaking ceilings etc)
The STB are not empowered to increase the Sales Proceeds of the Objectors
Looking at the Terms of Appointment for our Lawyer, their fees for STB Application covers
1) preparation of the application
2) preparation for the hearing &
3) up to 8 hours of hearing attendance before the Board.
All inclusive - pretty standard stuff.
The STB are not empowered to increase the Sales Proceeds of the Objectors
Looking at the Terms of Appointment for our Lawyer, their fees for STB Application covers
1) preparation of the application
2) preparation for the hearing &
3) up to 8 hours of hearing attendance before the Board.
All inclusive - pretty standard stuff.
I expect the hearing won't even take up 8 hours of their time divided over 2 days.
Ms Choo - let this en bloc go thru. Many of our neighbours, and including ourselves, are getting old. 1.7m is no small sum. If you are keen to get a good alternative, you should go for a freehold property (either condo or landed). I hv posted before that the TEL MRT line is the future line. Go for those properties along the line. You will not regret. I'm not sure if you will heed my advice and let the en bloc pass. But I hope you will. and I know if you do, you will know what to do.
ReplyDeleteI am not blocking this enbloc. You greatly overestimate my power! I am a bystander like the other minority.
DeleteBlogger, I remember in your earlier post you did mentioned that you support objectors. Maybe there's why objectors so confident to object even they have no case.
DeleteAny possibility of you explaining to the objectors their chances? The sales committee will not try to mediate before STB (just in case it jeopardises the sale) so that route of getting the objectors to drop their objections is out.
DeleteBut minorities who did not sign, maybe they can speak to the objectors to give up their lost cause (just like they did as they too know they're cannot win this in high court).
These delays could cost the units we have short listed for our new homes to be bought by other parties as we cannot buy them yet :(
Stop judging the majority. They are not against objections but just feel that there must be reasonable & good ground for objections (eg. Financial lost). They just feel that it is unfair to the those majority & minority who are looking fwd for retirement & moving to a new life. Object for the sake of objecting is wasting everybody's time !
DeleteCalling majority ' behaving like a pack of baying wolves' doen't it make you as nasty as you accused the majority of ? Don't be the pot calling the kettle black !
Ya, let it go enbloc lah, no point to stop it now, too late already, help each other lo...
ReplyDelete(Minority)
If objectors got good ground, we support they should go ahead & object (it's fair). We are not like what blogger accusing us of been a bully. If there is no good ground, then don't make both majority & minority suffer for nothing.
Delete(Majority)
Re 1.2: I support the objectors right to object, there is a subtle difference there.
ReplyDeleteThe Law is there primarily to protect Minority rights and due process must be followed, however frustrating it may be for the rest of the owners. I get annoyed when I read Majority comments on FB calling for due process to be abandoned because 'the majority are not interested in unproductive and time wasting mediations". This is precisely why the LTSA was born - to shield minority owners from such a bully-mindset, to set aside some time and space for their small voices to be heard.
We will not hear what these 3 voices have to say. We shall all just go about our regular business and let our last Christmas in TC be a happy one.
re 1.4: Man, people are so fast to comment when I hadn't finished editing... yes, i did call the majority out for behaving like a pack of baying wolves at the door - but thought it too antagonistic! Not fast enough, though... someone had already read it in the 10 secs it was posted!
Pack of wolves snapping at my heals!
Ms Choo. I’m not a wolf n i dont lead a pack of wolves to snap at yr heels. I’m just offering u a humble n honest advice. I hv lived here since the 80s and i know who u are altho i hv not met u
DeleteAnother idiom that is taken too literally!
DeleteOf course you are not a wolf - but I had literally put up that comment draft for maybe a minute when it was pounced upon like a piece of meat! No harm, though, when I re-read it I thought to myself " that's going to raise their hackles' ...
... but that may be construed as yet another lupine remark :P
you called this "bully?" "due process?" The lives of 557 families are held hostage by 3 objectors who are objecting for nothing! I have always pride myself as being a very objective person,...I will even help them in the objection process if at least there is some substance in the objection. There is totally no substance in the objections and everyone knows it,..if the emperor is not wearing clothes,..lets call it as it is..stop using excuses like "oh...we need to protect the minority.." to gag people and shame people from stating the facts,..waste time means waste time...no 2 ways about it. wasting time pursuing a meaningless agenda is something no one should encourage regardless of whether u are for or against the enbloc!
ReplyDeleteBlogger got 'I am always right' mentality. As she is sitting in the middle of the fence. Either way the enbloc falls, she don't lose. That's why she proudly said she is "a bystander like other minority." I don't think the other minority are like her. Majority or Minority, we all have to be reasonable. We should not have Kiasu or 'I must win' attitude just because you belongs to one camp. Just because she and objector are in the same camp means she must support them and call the majority bullies !
DeleteNo ending of arguments, wish this enbloc could end soon if not we are becoming enemies with all hurting words,
ReplyDeleteare they only unhappy of enbloc process not tally with their thought?
ReplyDeleteeven wish to update those idea to STB for an improvement to further enbloc process?
who's support and encourage them to do?
or intention to use this opportunity for more $ compensation?
If they are unhappy with the enbloc process for forever reasons pleaee go straight to high court as suggested by someone if there is possible. Stop wasting majority & minority's time by going to mediations. We have already wasted 3 weeks for nothing !
DeleteSTB is part of the legal process. You cant bypass it.
DeleteLet's say all withdraw objections, during stb, will stb still take 2 months fr 1st mediation to issue sale order? Or earlier than 2 'mths
ReplyDeleteIt's unfair for the blogger to trash people's post she deemed as nasty when hers are even worst. Please leave the post as they are and publish all so long as relevant to TC matters, maybe just blank off the vulgarities. Else read already no head no tail.
ReplyDeleteRecently Trashed but not Deleted - you can view them in the trashcan in the left hand column if you scroll down.
DeleteWhy must trashed ? So troublesome to go read from trashcan. Majority are outspoken not bullies like the way you put it. Objectors so weak meh must be protected by you?. They also can come here to debate. If they got valid reasons to object like financial lost I am sure majority will understand & support. We are reasonable people afterall we are all neighbours but please dun waste people's time & yr own money by objecting for no reasons or unhappy with the SC for whatever reasons.
DeleteThe objectors may have perfectly valid reasons to object, how would you know that they don't?
DeleteI can think of several questionable instances that occurred during this process and if they are brought up then the STB may indeed see them as valid and worth looking into. The SC could have some very tough questions put to them at mediation.
What is their objective from objecting? To stop the enbloc sale or to voice their unhappiness to STB hoping they will listen? STB only mediates. They pass no ruling. It is only High Court that does it.
DeleteIf there were valid reasons to block the sale, the minorities would be on this bandwagon too. They are not.
Hence the reason they are objecting is because they are unhappy.
Feelings have no place in our court of law. Their arguments will be half baked and i believe their main objective is to simply delay the sale for as long as possible.
These 3 objectors are the selfish ones who have NO care for their neighbours. They are heartless towards the aged staying in TC who have trouble climbing the stairs to their units. Those that need the money and are waiting desperately for this sale to complete.
Yes, their "valid reason' to object must be 'money not enough'. What questionable instances are you talking about ? Why don't you questions them during the process rather than after. There is an official FB, email and EOM for you to pose your questions there and then rather than to waste peoples's time now to complain so much. You can also volunteer to join the SC if you think you can do better. Why don't you ?
Deleteyou mean putting tender box here instead of there legitimate reason? u ok?
Deletemost of TC SPs are doubt objectors have valid reason to stop enbloc sale,
Deletecan share to them some reason here to stop thier mouth and to avoid people hated everyday?
if don't just withdraw and no here to delay all SPs finding for replacement now....
(have not signed, from minority)
What questionable instances that constitute as valid ground for objections? 557 SPs never think so and only 3 of you think otherwise. If really that serious why the other minority never object ?
DeleteWho is blogger talking about?. One moment said she is bystander, next said she support objectors. No wonder people said she's the one causing a mess in our enbloc !
ReplyDeleteI don't see how delaying the process can benefit her ? Either she be a bystander like the rest of the minority or be an objector. Don't point trying to play tennis on both side of the net.
Deletere 【 Anonymous06 November, 2017
ReplyDeleteyou called this "bully?" "due process?" The lives of 557 families are held hostage by 3 objectors who are objecting for nothing 】
with due respect,do u know their grounds of objections?i think u dunt know.
2. some one said find out the last objector,assuming three drop their case.this is a very bulling. what will u guy（s） do if u kbnow? ha ha..
put glue on his or her door lock..
hahaha...
Deletethose things not allowed, can get fine later!
most of the people no choice and cursing none stopped until withdraw..
you can hear it from market or kopi shop there.
Is the rumour that 2 more objectors withdrawing true? Best all 3 withdraw. Wasted enough time already.
ReplyDeleteno wonder this few days the comments so less already, most of them parked in left side "Trashcan" (at the back doors without deleting) hahaha... this arrangement so funny, it's consider a good idea to handle those comments.
ReplyDelete(good reader)
I suggest why don't the 3 objectors come here and tell us why you so unhappy of the enbloc and we all have a friendly debate. Afterall we are all neighbours. Although it is your right to object but please don't be so selfish as to make others suffer just because you are not happy with the SC or the enbloc process. Afterall you are also making profit right?. $1.7m is not a small amount. It's like striking lottery or toto. Everyweek I buy I also cannot strike $10 ! If money too much for you, can always donate to charity and earn some good karma right ? Life is short. If you can't make people happy, don't make them suffer.
ReplyDeleteI guess;
Delete1. unhappy enbloc process SC handle
2. 2M+
3. can't live without TC because of convenient
4. update to authority some improvement idea for future enbloc
5. good income from TC large space for rental or small production
maybe more...
Everybody has different priorities in life. Nobody owes you a living. What right do you have to make someone feel bad about NOT wanting to sell their home? This argument goes both ways.
DeleteIm sure that most SPs are not impatient but just frustrated with the uncertainty caused by delay of sale(could be 2 months more). Actually what do you think are the objectors concerns that they have to object so strongly against?
DeleteCan anyone advice how long delay STB sales order will take, cus if 2 months from first mediation will be 28 Jan. Am I right to say earliest sales proceeds can come in is start of May? And is the resale market started increasing in price recently? Appreciate it so we can start planning early
ReplyDeleteNo objector is sharing the reasons for objection because they know it will be ripped to shreds. Better they keep it mysterious until mediation where it is confidential so people of Tampines court won't know what a bunch of idiots the three are. If they had legit reason s, it would be made known already to get more supporters.
ReplyDeleteDon't understand why some people keep on saying they are forced to sell their homes. I would advise these people please go and buy a freehold house or land or maybe an island. So long as you stay in condo, sooner or later it will be enbloc. You make a bad choice buying condo. Why blame others ?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 16- Some people have been staying here long before this place was privatised.
DeleteWhy then do you support privitisation or continue to stay here when it was privitised knowing that it has become condo status subject to future enbloc possibility ? Lame excuse to object on ground of people forcing you to sell.your home. Try harder.
DeleteWhen you migrate to another country you accept the fact that there are both risk & benefits of becoming a citizen there. In the same way, when you still want to stay here after it's privitised means you accept the risk and benefits of been a condo owner. Don't blame others for your own decision.
DeleteDear 3 objectors,
ReplyDeleteI understand it must be difficult and upsetting to have to move out of our homes when we did not want to to begin with. I am sure, like me, that you feel that our homes host some wonderful memories that we cannot put a price on. This bittersweet move however is inevitable, so please do not prolong the agony and rip the band aid off as opposed to slowly peeling it away.Not for the angry mob but for yourselves because dragging this out is a futile, upsetting and pointless exercise. It is like cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Sincerely,
A neighbour.
Good analogy really have to pull the bandaid off. Its not that objectors no legal right, now its in a moving market, we dont know how much resale prices can rise. How do you all deal with the frustration that we cant move on without the sale order?
Deletelooking at some of the posts, it seems that many missed the facebook post on the objection reasons,...i am not sure whether it is still there,...in any case, based on memory, below are 3 of the 4 reasons,..the last one being so frivolous, the poster couldnt even remember it!...
ReplyDelete1. lack of transparency
2. tender box should be with lawyer
3. no 3 bids
u tell me frivolous or not?! my personal response to the 3 reasons:
1. if want full transparency, please join the sales com next time. u will definitely know how many times the com people visit the rest room in between meetings. points raised is a rehash of some of the blogger's points. in fact it was later discovered some of them turned out to be standard practices in other enbloc estates as well. i will not be at all surprised if the objector show the whole blog to the STB and tell them...."na...this is what is wrong with the whole enbloc!"...see...see...all stated by this blogger,..u tell me enbloc no problem??" ....This is what we chinese call,..never fully master the kungfu, half way go fight people. the person read the blog and form his or her opinion there is really something wrong with the enbloc when in fact most of the blogger's gripe are nothing more than just gripe,..or what in hokkien we termed as KPKB..nothing that is so fatal it warrants an immediate disqualification. And for this objection, we have the blogger to thank..indirectly.
2. dont even want to waste time commenting
3. pls join civil service and get your 3 quotes...
Anonymous 18 - if no.1 really happen, STB will not stop the enbloc sale directly, if can't settled with STB power limit, STB will let it settle in high court, by than... will go up high court, 83% TC SPs (+Witnesses vs 3 TC SPs (+the blog) for sure majority will do....
Deletejust worried my friend blogger also get in to the court by someone there waiting for long....
(good reader)