A Minority Owner's chronicled journey through 3 Collective Sale attempts; the last one being successful. TC was a 560 ex-HUDC estate with a thriving community spirit (up until the enblocs that is). I have moved on to a new, 37 unit Freehold estate. Life is quiet now with zero community feeling.
The S&P has expired Owners are no longer bound to the terms and conditions of the contract. Owners are no longer bound by the terms and conditions of the CSA.
At the moment, a developer has put caveats on all the properties in Tampines Court.
I don't like giving advice but follow your instinct on this one. If the deal is too good to be true, then you yourself know something is wrong. . Wait for legal process of this en bloc to be completed before wading in. .
I just got a call just this evening from my housing agent who got me a valuation of my unit at 680K from DBS Bank and 530K from OUB Bank. Don't know why the big difference from the two banks, but I believe it will be difficult to sell at another 50k above valuation with today's market sentiment. So 695k plus whatever we get from the beta sum would not be a bad deal I think.
Waterfront View costs & expenses were in the region of $19,000 and they sold in mid 2006 (not sure about completion date).
The Majority have already hired not one but two senior counsels and we are still only at the STB level. I do not know who will pay for this in the end, but I expect the SPs of TC.
So what will the C&E's of TC be? I'm guessing $30 to $40k. I once asked the en bloc lawyer if the Beta sum remainder could be zero and he said yes. So that is what I expect; zero.
$700 -$40 = $660k. This is not an en bloc price, possibly even below market value.
What are we going to be left with if the en bloc does not go through?
The estate today looks worse than our HDB neighbors. The common areas and lifts leave something to be desired. Someone mentioned our value should be higher because we are private property - I don't know about you but if I were buying, I'd be hesitant to pay a premium for a run down estate. Private, in and of itself, doesn't mean much if we are not going to upkeep the estate.
Are we prepared to pay to spruce up the place? Looking at the two failed upgrading attempts, I don't think so. I hope otherwise, especially if the en bloc does not go thorough.
BTW, if I read the current report of the the current sinking fund correctly, it looks like we are short of something like $5M to do all the work that needs to be done this year. Lifts replacement alone (the lifts are already 24 years old) are $1.3M -- which is what our sinking fund is currently. Who's going to pay for this? (Duh...us the owners - nobody else is going to do it!)
To be honest, I am just as happy either way the en bloc goes - but if we stay, let's make this a home that we are glad to come home to ... and not another Rose Gardens.
The way the MC has laid out the list of 'things to do' is of course part of their scaremongering tactics. There is no need to do all things in one shot. The lifts I believe are the number 1 priority - the MC should have done that job 2 years ago instead of waiting for the enbloc sale to go through. The mandate of the MC is to upkeep the estate; instead they have been wearing two hats and have preferred to let the estate deteriorate to the condition it is in now.
But all things are fixable, and people will take pride in their homes once again. Nothing in life is free - you will learn that lesson in any estate you choose to move to. Even HDB's have $20k lift upgrading you have to pay for.
They are trying to close the gate after the horse had bolted (escaped). By doing so, they are wasting everybody's time and money. Such resources can be used in other areas of our economy.
Please give up now, Sales Committee!
To quote one Majority SP, "Even to this date as I am, I strongly believe most of the majority hope that this deal would not go thru. Many of the majority feel that we have been cheated of a true process in the sale."
Sales Committee, who are you representing now? Definitely not the Majority SPs at this moment. They do not want you.
Sales Committee, Please leave graciously!
By doing so, you will not incur additional and unnecessay expenses that will be passed on to the Majority SPs.
Sales Committee, Please, please leave this place and leave us in peace!
It is a pity that this matter has escalated into such a guerrilla warfare. Name calling and finger pointing...are we still civilized or not? Majority or minority, the outcome is something that NONE of us can control, so why not hold back on the nastiness and make the best of whatever happens? Hey s#$t happens...let's cope.
I hope there hasn't been any name calling on my blog. The only name calling has been directed at me (a hypocrite, I believe) and I have since stopped publishing any more of that particular poster's diatribes. Some comments are simply unprintable. I think this blog is quite civilized but you have to expect some finger-pointing as there are two opposing factions. It is only recently that I have been getting a lot more majority comments.
My neighbour & I are having very bad ceiling leak problems. Upstairs unit are all rented out. Upstairs owners are un-contactable. I am sure more & more of such problems will surface in TC in the near future as TC is more than 22 years OLD now. Even if the upstairs owner can be contacted, he is definitely not willing to hack his kitchen & toilet to red0 his waterproofing. This is a very real problem/challenge to face if all of us want to continue to stay here. Otherwise, a successful en-bloc could be a good solution. What are your thoughts?
You should take the matter up with the STB (yes, they do more than enblocs..)
From their website FAQ: 5 Q: If there is water leakage from the upper unit to the unit immediately below, is the owner of the upper unit responsible for the rectification of the leakage?
A: Where there is evidence of water leakage into the lower unit, it is presumed (in the absence of proof to the contrary) that the defect is within the upper unit. The owner of the upper unit should investigate and if confirmed that the leakage is from his unit, then he should take immediate steps to rectify the leakage.
6. Q: What should I do if a party refuses or fails to comply with an order of the Strata Titles Board?
A: You have to enforce the order in the Subordinate Courts. A person who contravenes an order made by a Board to do or refrain from doing a specified act is guilty of an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $10 000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
Every problem has a solution. You don't have to sell the horse if he needs a new shoe.
The Sales commitee has since pulled all sorts of rabbits out of their hat and the minority (kudos to them!)have put up a hell of a fight to keep our homes and to ensure that we do not get a raw deal.
Tomorrow, some people are going to be happy and some people ...not so happy. Whatever the case, we'll just have to leave it in the good hands of the STB to do what is just and right by us.
Well all said and done I have to applaud the minority and only a few of them who carried themselves out as professiona;s and also to the majority too for not calling out names etc. It is in the hands of the stb now and as said whatever happens lets hope that we carry ourselves with dignity and not in manners that will be shamefully displayed in the papers.Good luck to all and though i am one of the majority I am happy with whatever decision the stb comes up with. End of it if it goes through then lets all ensure that money is evenly distributed and no one is able to take more...
No job is a grateful one whether as a mc or sales commitee, so lets stop picking on the sales commitee as this would not have happened if none of us wanted it. As in any country and even in Singapore the governing body is elected on a majority basis by citizens who felt that they are good, We will have the minority who will disagree but they have a chance in the next election to prove they are better and see if the mandate is given. So guys lets all start living pleasantly irrespective of who we are and respect one another. Cheers
The minority lawyers at the STB went easy on the 2 sale committee applicants; they were not painted as the 'bad guys'. The Property Agent, on cross-examination, even went so far as to say they (SC) was "totally confused" when it came to signing the S&P.
It takes more than a desire to see an en bloc of 560 homes through to a successful completion - it takes intellect, education, a strong personality, moral integrity and business acumen.
I think you have managed before and know what it is like. No one went easy on any one so lets not use this cus then you would have failed in proving your case.All put their case forward and let the wise people decide. Smiles buddy
Thanks to itshometome for doing a good job for updating us of the process, also thanks to the blog owner for providing this space.
let's don't blame the majority for going for the embloc - i believe they make a prudent decision at that time bearing in mine tampines court can only be sold at 350K if sold individually. So 700K seems to be quite a good deal when the csa was signed.
let's don't blame the minority for protesting. they are just exercising their rights.
let's don't blame the SC. They are voluntering and have enough stress without being paid.
Should the enbloc went through, we should accept STB's decision gracefully and stop quarreling. Should it failed I only feel sorry for those who purchase another unit without waiting for the outcome of the decision and the agents for their wasted efforts.
THE en bloc sale of former HUDC estate Tampines Court failed on Friday after the Strata Titles Board dismissed its sale application.
The board said it had examined the evidence and found that the sale was not concluded in good faith.
It said it will release its grounds of decision at a later date.
The Board's decision effectively means that the sale of the estate is off.
That is because the sales committee's agreement with the estate's buyers - Far East Organisation and Centrepoint Properties - also expires on Friday and the buyers have previously indicated they will not extend the agreement.
The sale has caused much tension and division in the estate, with some upset residents complaining that the process has dragged on for too long.
The majority owners feel the sale price - about $700,000 for each unit - is above what the homes could get on the open market.
But minority owners believe the amount is too low, given that private home prices in Tampines have shot up in the last year.
An independent analyst, Savills' director of marketing and business development Ku Swee Yong, said fair value is likely from $500,000 to $700,000.
Tampines Court is spread over a sizeable 702,162 sq ft site with 560 units. It could be redeveloped into a new condominium with around 1,580 units averaging 1,300 sq ft.
Just heard the good news , I was praying very very hard while you were there at the court for the hearing. Thank you very much , appreciate your team effort. Now we must decide about the AGM new members.
I think there's no need to lash out at residents from other countries. TC is no pot of gold and I think we all need to accept the STB's outcome. Yes, there will be problems to fix and yes, there will be some very upset individuals who might be feeling like they've been cheated. Whatever it is, I think everyone needs to pull together and resolve the issues.
As an individual who lives and works in China (I am Singaporean), I find the comment about TC becoming "Little China" or "Little Philippines" unnecessary and rather offensive to residents from these areas. There are MANY residential areas in China whose conditions far surpass those of TC. The public areas are well-maintained, the neighbors are helpful and friendly, the guards are polite and the management is quick to resolve problems reported by residents. So perhaps TC should aspire to be like these areas rather than cringe at the thought that we might have become like them???
Let's work at fixing our problems and cut the name calling bit.
Thank you for all your wonderful postings all this while. I have been kept up-to-date because of your blog.
ReplyDeleteShame on the Sales Committee who choose to keep everybody in the dark, including the Majority SP who had given them the mandate.
Really poor management on their part!
Hi
ReplyDeletewhat is happening at blk 120, i see so many people going to the management office.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI am looking at a unit in tampines court that is selling at a very low price.
We are thinking it's too good to be true.
Pardon me as I am not aware of the enbloc situation.
Why did you say that owners are in trouble?
May i know what does the Collective sales agreement involve?
A property agent refuses tell us what is the catch.
Would you mind sharing why is it a bad news for Tampines court owner if the sales did not go through?
At the moment, a developer has put caveats on all the properties in Tampines Court.
ReplyDeleteI don't like giving advice but follow your instinct on this one. If the deal is too good to be true, then you yourself know something is wrong.
.
Wait for legal process of this en bloc to be completed before wading in.
.
I just got a call just this evening from my housing agent who got me a valuation of my unit at 680K from DBS Bank and 530K from OUB Bank. Don't know why the big difference from the two banks, but I believe it will be difficult to sell at another 50k above valuation with today's market sentiment. So 695k plus whatever we get from the beta sum would not be a bad deal I think.
ReplyDeleteWaterfront View costs & expenses were in the region of $19,000 and they sold in mid 2006 (not sure about completion date).
ReplyDeleteThe Majority have already hired not one but two senior counsels and we are still only at the STB level. I do not know who will pay for this in the end, but I expect the SPs of TC.
So what will the C&E's of TC be? I'm guessing $30 to $40k. I once asked the en bloc lawyer if the Beta sum remainder could be zero and he said yes. So that is what I expect; zero.
$700 -$40 = $660k. This is not an en bloc price, possibly even below market value.
What are we going to be left with if the en bloc does not go through?
ReplyDeleteThe estate today looks worse than our HDB neighbors. The common areas and lifts leave something to be desired. Someone mentioned our value should be higher because we are private property - I don't know about you but if I were buying, I'd be hesitant to pay a premium for a run down estate. Private, in and of itself, doesn't mean much if we are not going to upkeep the estate.
Are we prepared to pay to spruce up the place? Looking at the two failed upgrading attempts, I don't think so. I hope otherwise, especially if the en bloc does not go thorough.
BTW, if I read the current report of the the current sinking fund correctly, it looks like we are short of something like $5M to do all the work that needs to be done this year. Lifts replacement alone (the lifts are already 24 years old) are $1.3M -- which is what our sinking fund is currently. Who's going to pay for this? (Duh...us the owners - nobody else is going to do it!)
To be honest, I am just as happy either way the en bloc goes - but if we stay, let's make this a home that we are glad to come home to ... and not another Rose Gardens.
The way the MC has laid out the list of 'things to do' is of course part of their scaremongering tactics. There is no need to do all things in one shot. The lifts I believe are the number 1 priority - the MC should have done that job 2 years ago instead of waiting for the enbloc sale to go through. The mandate of the MC is to upkeep the estate; instead they have been wearing two hats and have preferred to let the estate deteriorate to the condition it is in now.
ReplyDeleteBut all things are fixable, and people will take pride in their homes once again. Nothing in life is free - you will learn that lesson in any estate you choose to move to. Even HDB's have $20k lift upgrading you have to pay for.
Why can't the Sales Committee admit defeat now?
ReplyDeleteThey are trying to close the gate after the horse had bolted (escaped). By doing so, they are wasting everybody's time and money. Such resources can be used in other areas of our economy.
Please give up now, Sales Committee!
To quote one Majority SP, "Even to this date as I am, I strongly believe most of the majority hope that this deal would not go thru. Many of the majority feel that we have been cheated of a true process in the sale."
Sales Committee, who are you representing now? Definitely not the Majority SPs at this moment. They do not want you.
Sales Committee, Please leave graciously!
By doing so, you will not incur additional and unnecessay expenses that will be passed on to the Majority SPs.
Sales Committee,
Please, please leave this place and leave us in peace!
It is a pity that this matter has escalated into such a guerrilla warfare. Name calling and finger pointing...are we still civilized or not? Majority or minority, the outcome is something that NONE of us can control, so why not hold back on the nastiness and make the best of whatever happens? Hey s#$t happens...let's cope.
ReplyDeleteI hope there hasn't been any name calling on my blog. The only name calling has been directed at me (a hypocrite, I believe) and I have since stopped publishing any more of that particular poster's diatribes. Some comments are simply unprintable. I think this blog is quite civilized but you have to expect some finger-pointing as there are two opposing factions. It is only recently that I have been getting a lot more majority comments.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy neighbour & I are having very bad ceiling leak problems. Upstairs unit are all rented out. Upstairs owners are un-contactable. I am sure more & more of such problems will surface in TC in the near future as TC is more than 22 years OLD now. Even if the upstairs owner can be contacted, he is definitely not willing to hack his kitchen & toilet to red0 his waterproofing. This is a very real problem/challenge to face if all of us want to continue to stay here. Otherwise, a successful en-bloc could be a good solution. What are your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteRE: My neighbour...
ReplyDeleteYou should take the matter up with the STB (yes, they do more than enblocs..)
From their website FAQ:
5
Q: If there is water leakage from the upper unit to the unit immediately below, is the owner of the upper unit responsible for the rectification of the leakage?
A: Where there is evidence of water leakage into the lower unit, it is presumed (in the absence of proof to the contrary) that the defect is within the upper unit. The owner of the upper unit should investigate and if confirmed that the leakage is from his unit, then he should take immediate steps to rectify the leakage.
6.
Q: What should I do if a party refuses or fails to comply with an order of the Strata Titles Board?
A: You have to enforce the order in the Subordinate Courts. A person who contravenes an order made by a Board to do or refrain from doing a specified act is guilty of an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $10 000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
Every problem has a solution. You don't have to sell the horse if he needs a new shoe.
though i don't mind the enbloc failed but i hope the result will be in favour of the majority
ReplyDeleteall the best to everyone in TC. Whatever the result, take it in stide and let's move on.....
The Sales commitee has since pulled all sorts of rabbits out of their hat and the minority (kudos to them!)have put up a hell of a fight to keep our homes and to ensure that we do not get a raw deal.
ReplyDeleteTomorrow, some people are going to be happy and some people ...not so happy. Whatever the case, we'll just have to leave it in the good hands of the STB to do what is just and right by us.
Well all said and done I have to applaud the minority and only a few of them who carried themselves out as professiona;s and also to the majority too for not calling out names etc. It is in the hands of the stb now and as said whatever happens lets hope that we carry ourselves with dignity and not in manners that will be shamefully displayed in the papers.Good luck to all and though i am one of the majority I am happy with whatever decision the stb comes up with.
ReplyDeleteEnd of it if it goes through then lets all ensure that money is evenly distributed and no one is able to take more...
No job is a grateful one whether as a mc or sales commitee, so lets stop picking on the sales commitee as this would not have happened if none of us wanted it. As in any country and even in Singapore the governing body is elected on a majority basis by citizens who felt that they are good, We will have the minority who will disagree but they have a chance in the next election to prove they are better and see if the mandate is given.
ReplyDeleteSo guys lets all start living pleasantly irrespective of who we are and respect one another. Cheers
Re: no job is a ...
ReplyDeleteThe minority lawyers at the STB went easy on the 2 sale committee applicants; they were not painted as the 'bad guys'. The Property Agent, on cross-examination, even went so far as to say they (SC) was "totally confused" when it came to signing the S&P.
It takes more than a desire to see an en bloc of 560 homes through to a successful completion - it takes intellect, education, a strong personality, moral integrity and business acumen.
It's simply not enough to be a "nice guy'.
I think you have managed before and know what it is like. No one went easy on any one so lets not use this cus then you would have failed in proving your case.All put their case forward and let the wise people decide. Smiles buddy
ReplyDeleteThanks to itshometome for doing a good job for updating us of the process, also thanks to the blog owner for providing this space.
ReplyDeletelet's don't blame the majority for going for the embloc - i believe they make a prudent decision at that time bearing in mine tampines court can only be sold at 350K if sold individually. So 700K seems to be quite a good deal when the csa was signed.
let's don't blame the minority for protesting. they are just exercising their rights.
let's don't blame the SC. They are voluntering and have enough stress without being paid.
Should the enbloc went through, we should accept STB's decision gracefully and stop quarreling. Should it failed I only feel sorry for those who purchase another unit without waiting for the outcome of the decision and the agents for their wasted efforts.
Happy National Day in advance to all !
do
MINORITY WINS!!! My parents just sms-ed me and told me at 1512hrs.
ReplyDeleteHome > Latest News > Singapore
ReplyDeleteJuly 25, 2008
Tampines Court sale dismissed
By Jessica Cheam
THE en bloc sale of former HUDC estate Tampines Court failed on Friday after the Strata Titles Board dismissed its sale application.
The board said it had examined the evidence and found that the sale was not concluded in good faith.
It said it will release its grounds of decision at a later date.
The Board's decision effectively means that the sale of the estate is off.
That is because the sales committee's agreement with the estate's buyers - Far East Organisation and Centrepoint Properties - also expires on Friday and the buyers have previously indicated they will not extend the agreement.
The sale has caused much tension and division in the estate, with some upset residents complaining that the process has dragged on for too long.
The majority owners feel the sale price - about $700,000 for each unit - is above what the homes could get on the open market.
But minority owners believe the amount is too low, given that private home prices in Tampines have shot up in the last year.
An independent analyst, Savills' director of marketing and business development Ku Swee Yong, said fair value is likely from $500,000 to $700,000.
Tampines Court is spread over a sizeable 702,162 sq ft site with 560 units. It could be redeveloped into a new condominium with around 1,580 units averaging 1,300 sq ft.
Seems like the sale fell through.. btw, u know anyone whom is letting go a unit there?
ReplyDeleteSTB rejected the enbloc ...yeah
ReplyDeleteHi
ReplyDeleteJust heard the good news , I was praying very very hard while you were there at the court for the hearing. Thank you very much , appreciate your team effort. Now we must decide about the AGM new members.
Comment to blog entry dated July 23, 2008 5:28 PM
ReplyDeleteI think there's no need to lash out at residents from other countries. TC is no pot of gold and I think we all need to accept the STB's outcome. Yes, there will be problems to fix and yes, there will be some very upset individuals who might be feeling like they've been cheated. Whatever it is, I think everyone needs to pull together and resolve the issues.
As an individual who lives and works in China (I am Singaporean), I find the comment about TC becoming "Little China" or "Little Philippines" unnecessary and rather offensive to residents from these areas. There are MANY residential areas in China whose conditions far surpass those of TC. The public areas are well-maintained, the neighbors are helpful and friendly, the guards are polite and the management is quick to resolve problems reported by residents. So perhaps TC should aspire to be like these areas rather than cringe at the thought that we might have become like them???
Let's work at fixing our problems and cut the name calling bit.
My apologies -I am sorry to have put that comment up, not realising it was a sensitive issue for some - I have since deleted it.
ReplyDeleteMessage was not meant to lash out at any one in particular..
ReplyDelete