Mar 3, 2018

Do Objections delay the Sale?

Blogger view only (I have to keep reminding people that everything said on this blog is my opinion only, not the word of god)

The Objections have become a handy scapegoat for the delay in the Sale. This is unfair as there are 2 entirely different processes which overlap in a collective sale:
  1. The LTSA Process which Owners have to go through: this starts at the formation of the CSC under the Schedules and ends an the STB Sales Order. The Objections fall within this process.
  2. The Purchaser/Developer Process which begins at the SPA Date and ends when all their units in the new development are sold.
From the moment the S&P is signed, the Buyer has to get cracking and obtain all the necessary Gov Approvals to complete the sale. He has to apply to the LTA, URA,SLA to obtain his Lessor Approval, PAFS, QC, OPP, SLA Top Up Consent, LUP, & Baseline Confirmation. It is this Application-Approval period which is delaying the completion of the sale. We were told on FB that these Approvals were being done 'concurrently' with the Objections, but we later found out from the newspaper that the buyer did not Apply for the OPP until December 2017 and that it is still outstanding. Why didn't he apply earlier, why the delay? The answer is not important - just the fact that he made the calculated decision NOT to apply earlier and so has run smack into the new DC Rate increase. It was his folly and his alone. 

The DC Rate that is used in their DP calculations is pegged to the OPP Approval date - that is why they were hoping & praying for the OPP Approval before the 1 Mar 2018. It didn't come so now the new DC rate applies

I look at it this way: Objections in general work to the Buyer's advantage as they provide a breathing space for them to do the necessary before the PCP clock starts to tick. In a regular sale, the PCP clock starts at the date of issue of the QC (Qualifying certificate) but 'for cases where a developer has purchased residential land through a collective sale under the Land Titles (Strata) Act (“the Act”), the PCP will commence from the date of the collective sale order granted under the Act. This is to enable the developer to have the full PCP to complete the project.'   

So the longer the Sale Order takes, the more time he has to get his approvals without it eating into his precious 5 yr PCP.  We were told that the  QC/RPA was granted 17 Sep 2017 - so the Objections have saved the Developer 3 months of PCP - which he clearly has wasted.

I have tried to put it pictorially - but it's not very good, sorry.


From the Owners perspective, it feels a little different. Owners generally want that STB Order to come quicker as they believe the Completion Date would be sooner. But it's all wishful thinking, as an earlier STB Sales Order does not make anything move faster, the Approvals will take as long as they take and completion is in the Developer's hands.

Moving forward, I believe Developer-Buyers of future collective sales might secretly wish for a toothless STB objection or two, to cover their Approval Application period. It's ALL about timing, isn't it...... just saying :P

79 comments:

  1. No need to justify! The answer is YES!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agreed. Objectors fault.

      Delete
    2. Do Objections delay the Sale? - of course! Wasted 3 mths for nothing !

      Delete
  2. what you says is right but provided.

    A.NO new rule harming the deal.
    B.DC not increase.

    unfortunately,both ghosts jumped out...

    ReplyDelete
  3. SL is afraid losing $200,000 OPP fee,should STB or court reject the sale.
    Therefore SL applied OPP until DEC.Dec is official.

    my guess is SL applied until all objections dropped on 28 DEC.
    SL most likely applied OPP until 28-29 DEC.

    THE result is TC subject to new traffic rule PAFS effective mid NOV,causing number of units to be built drop to 2200,instead of 2609 units based on URA old general rule.(70 meter sq GFA per unit.)

    you see how fast SERGRABGOON VILLE and RIO CASA get PAFS and OPP,most SP will faint.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So a case of penny wise, pound foolish, if you are correct...or just a calculated business decision that bit him in the behind..

      Delete
    2. re 3.1.calculating, calculative is more precise description,until i get reason why SL delay 4 months to apply OPP.

      SV and RIO CASA got OPP in slightly less than four and six months.

      Delete
    3. Yes, but SL is a businessman so this strategy didn't pan out doesn't mean the strategy is not the right way to do business. SL may have thought there is a high chance of going all the way to HC, on the other hand, even if they applied OPP, chances are it would not have been approved if the govt definitely wanted to increase DC, and for DC to apply to the Elephant in Sector 98.

      Just because you bought travel insurance but didn't lose your baggage, you can see it as a loss, or you can see it as a smart strategy.

      Delete
    4. the late SL OPP application harms TC redevelopment potential to a detrimental level and the harm irreversible. SO sad.

      consequence? SL walks away or
      TC enbloc value drops .
      FEW SP air their view on this value.BUT i wander HOW many know....

      Delete
    5. re 3.3.re stop approving DC
      u jus defend SL to such unlogical way.

      Delete
    6. Illogical to you, but firstly you arent SL, secondly you dont have $970m. You can have all the logic you claim to have.

      Delete
    7. Whatever SL novel strategy for delaying application, clearly a flawed gambit. Vestiges of TC enbloc I; an ignominious failure!

      Delete
  4. The timid die of hunger, the bold of overeating. Nobody can predict DC hike so tremendously. When business has to run, staffs have to feed, social responsibility needs to fulfill and reputation are all counted, developers got to calculate best to their knowledge given the thinner and thinner profit margin, or else making no money.

    ReplyDelete
  5. blogger last paragraphs does not apply to SL.SL has wasted four months from ASP until applying OPP in DEC, as LAWYER confirmed.
    GOOD BYE to TC full enbloc value..

    ReplyDelete
  6. So the DC increase should be foot by developer not SPs

    ReplyDelete
  7. next rescission date by SL is end MARCH.
    SL Can only rescind on the dates (jan and Mar ,plus extensions)or conditions matured (LUP) stated in ASP.

    NOT any day.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Whatever results we still have too wait no use blaming whom is right or wrong we are all in the same boat now. Sit back and enjoy the home we have now. We have to stick as TC residents to get thing moving. Yes or No -27 April everything Will be finalised

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. by delaying OPP,SL just cut DOWN value of TC. u r generous .i salute you.

      Delete
  9. Dear Blogger, on your penultimate paragraph: Recall the timeline given and explanation by the team at the 25 Aug 2017 SP Meeting, it is clear why owners think that way.

    I fully agree with your view in the last paragraph.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Penny wise, pound foolish. I don't doubt SL's sincerity at the first place, but with such a huge project, magnitude of SL cannot match. They have eyes bigger than stomach, as a consequence, SL has been calculating very carefully to avoid any risk, any penalty, leading to the situation today. I personally weigh the chance of go through only 30%.

    ReplyDelete
  11. water view(SL project) sold out, is tampines ave 10 better that street 11 ? Next GLS at ave 10 will be higher price, don't think SL would give up TC.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "They wish for a toothless STB objector". May I ask the blogger how they intend to do that? Plant an objector for the sake of making a toothless objection? And how are they going to control the presence of a real objector?

    I mean, blogger, you've got some good points all these while, but for this post in particular, you've lost the plot. Why don't you keep this for post-mortem, instead of bringing this up at the point in time? Just look the the comments and ask if they are worthy of your blog and a sensible debate is taking place.

    Right now, we just want news on whether SL proceeds or does no proceed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I never said they would plant an objection - but IF an objection was made and IF it turned out to be fruitless (as 99% of objections do nowadays) then it doesn't hurt them in the least. Quite the opposite in fact. If it takes 3-5 months for the approvals , then it's good for them if it doesn't waste too much PCP time.

      Just because I mull over some things doesn't mean it is top-of-the-agenda. There is nothing for us to do except wait and see if Sim Lian pulls out on or before 27 April (why does it say 22 April in the Jan legal letter btw?). Is there any topic would you particularly like to discuss? I am open to suggestions. Why wait for a post-mortem when we have this big blank space to fill.
      I agree, the comments are dismal, I don't even put up half of them.

      Delete
    2. I suggest blogger discuss where we can move to after we get TC proceeds. I am sure there will be many real estate agents happy to provide blogger their views, and may even like to have a page for them to advertise on this blog so that blogger can afford to buy a more snazzy web page (bit too late, come to think of it. we have put up with this one for a decade)....

      Delete
    3. Anon 12.2 Dont count your chickens before they're hatched.
      SL is in direct competition with rivals who recently acquired ex HUDC sites at old DC rates. Uphill task to compete on unequal terms. SL may also have overstretched themselves now.
      With TC huge size, every day approval is delayed puts SL into deeper time trouble. More reasons to pull out than continue. Fully agree with Anon 10.

      Delete
    4. 12.3. If we were counting our chickens already, we won't be concerned to come to this blog or to fb. Every single SP even you (if you are an SP, and likely you're not), are concerned.

      Maybe it gives you a kick to stir up trouble. Well this blog draws all types of people.

      Delete
    5. HaHaHa. It's been said: we're insignificant mosquitoes. All troubles are self inflicted!

      Delete
  13. i suggest discuss,
    chance of success, and reasons.

    no point just put conclusion without reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  14. FYI. Euro Asia Apartment in Up Serangoon Rd just passed 80% enbloc consent.

    ReplyDelete
  15. This has delayed sales of proceeds to recieve only in july right? How about SPs who have out in 1% deposit for buying homes?

    ReplyDelete
  16. I think the next update I n FB will be the go or no go declare. Hope it comes faster, we are tortured for quite long.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Some write out in the Chinese media today (I Think) ie papers with regards to the issues.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. .
      it is said TAMPINES COURT enbloc may not
      be successful due to change of use to road etc.END ABOVE..re 17@yes.
      i QUOTE in translation..

      QUOTE.
      陆路交通管理局去年11月设下新规定,要求买家、发展商或房地产经纪公司,在提交私宅集体出售项目的提案或发展申请前向陆交局咨询,是否须要对附近交通进行可行性研究(Pre-Application Feasibility Study,简称PAFS),以确保项目在重新发展后的可建筑住宅单位总数不会对周围的道路造成交通阻塞。

      成功集体求售的大型公寓淡滨尼阁(Tampines Court),近期便传出可能因为道路修改等问题,以致交易或许无法成功。



      .
      公寓集体出售过程 多方参与变数多 http://www.zaobao.com/zfinance/real-estate/story20180303-839570?xtor=CS2-6

      Delete
    2. Yes, I read that article. It implies it is a no go.

      Delete
    3. What did the chinese media write?

      Delete
  18. TC enbloc may die:zaobao.

    reasons,PAFS.

    Quote.
    ....
    ....
    (Pre-Application Feasibility Study,简称PAFS),以确保项目在重新发展后的可建筑住宅单位总数不会对周围的道路造成交通阻塞。

    成功集体求售的大型公寓淡滨尼阁(Tampines Court),近期便传出可能因为道路修改等问题,以致交易或许无法成功。



    .
    公寓集体出售过程 多方参与变数多 http://www.zaobao.com/zfinance/real-estate/story20180303-839570?xtor=CS2-6

    ReplyDelete
  19. Yesterday on Lianhe. It is at the bottom saying TC is facing LTA issues. The article is basically talking about hurdles relating to enblocs after 80% is reached. So the LTA is one of the points they raised in their article. nothing surprising.

    ReplyDelete
  20. re 19.how come zaobao dare to say TC deal may die?SL hinted? VEry interesting storey...

    ReplyDelete
  21. if SL rescind ASP in Mar or Apr,or on LUP issue ,can SP keep the deposit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. so,SL got a risk free deal in TC .
      if deal cannot go through,SL just lost 200,000 OPP fee and its reputation.

      Delete
    2. Reputation, that's the biggest loss for SL. I don't think SL will be taken back by the DC hike. Many are eying SL and test his strength. This is the chance SL can demonstrate. The challenge is equal for all developers, how to accept it and tackle it test developers management skill and problem solving skills. SL has the professional team and potential, I have no doubt.

      Delete
    3. With ability to raise well over a Billion, there's another one, two or possibly three or more Enbloc or GLC for SL pickings.
      Reputation intact. All blame to LTA, URA ....

      Delete
    4. For sure, some would redirect all blame to govt agencies, policies allowing foreign developers in, potential oversupply, gloomy population projections, objectors....whatever, as long as it's not focused on most probable cause: A miscalculation and delayed approval submission incurring unnecessary extra costs to the project.
      The SPA makes it easy for SL to live and fight another day. No worries, love this place, for those enbloc diehards, there will always another. We live and learn, live and learn.

      Delete
    5. It would tarnish SL reputation more to slug it out if the numbers just don't work. Pointless to persist with an unworkable scheme. Reputations and bottom lines are inseparable bedfellows.

      Delete
  22. The article is describing reasons that enblocs will not succeed. It gives an example that PAFS is one of the reasons, and Tampines court is facing this issue.

    It does not imply TC enbloc will fail. anyone who says that has a F in Chinese. Read it in the context of the article.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We all hope TC enbloc go through smoothly, but the last sentence of this article, literally, a word for word translation, is " lead the deal to maybe unsuccessful situation". When we say that in Chinese, it actually means unsuccessful, but in a softer tone. I also wonder why Chinese newspaper comes out this information?

      Delete
  23. i try to translate...
    成功集体求售的大型公寓淡滨尼阁(Tampines Court),近期便传出可能因为道路修改等问题,以致交易或许无法成功。
    recently,the change of use issue of TC
    is said causing deal may not be successful.END.

    The article did not say TC will fail.ha ha

    ReplyDelete
  24. words to words translation.

    以致causing交易deal或许may be 无法成功cannot be successful。END.

    MY translation.Not google translate.
    ANY one not agree to my translation?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Check Zaobao today 05/March. Another article of TC. I wonder why there isn't any in English media. The meaning is ambiguous, I asked a Chinese teacher, she said it implies almost non success. Any English version coverage you guys can find pls?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can have a chinese teacher, you can check zaobao, you can say it implies non success, but you come here asking for English coverage. Basically you aren’t a SP.

      Delete
  26. Translation by Google:

    陆路交通管理局去年11月设下新规定,要求买家、发展商或房地产经纪公司,在提交私宅集体出售项目的提案或发展申请前向陆交局咨询,是否须要对附近交通进行可行性研究(Pre-Application Feasibility Study,简称PAFS),以确保项目在重新发展后的可建筑住宅单位总数不会对周围的道路造成交通阻塞。

    成功集体求售的大型公寓淡滨尼阁(Tampines Court),近期便传出可能因为道路修改等问题,以致交易或许无法成功。


    In November last year, the Land Transport Authority set a new requirement that buyers, developers or real estate brokerage firms should consult with the Land Transport Bureau before submitting proposals for proposals for the sale of collective properties in private houses or whether there is a need for a feasibility study on the traffic in the vicinity (Pre-Application Feasibility Study, referred to as PAFS) to ensure that the total number of units that can be constructed after the project is redeveloped will not cause traffic congestion on the surrounding roads. The successful sale of large condominium Tampines Court, recently came out may be due to road changes and other issues, the deal may not be successful.

     

    ReplyDelete
  27. It’s just like “not pretty” , does it equate “ugly”?
    “May not be successful” equates “fail”?

    ReplyDelete
  28. today zaobao article :MA says if going smooth,URA may approve in mid APRIL.HE says SL already prepared increase in DC.
    SL refused to comment. END
    ha ha....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hmmmm MA said all that: approve likely in mid april; SL prepared for incr in DC. Why didn't he disclose all that to us, SP of Tampines Court all that juicy information in his letter. Some update. Does he know who he's serving and paying his commission? Maybe confidentiality clause prevents him telling us but allows him to speak freely with reporters. Forget Huttons updates, TC fb, I'll subscribe to zaobao. XieXie.

      Delete
    2. Two articles are a set of propaganda news.first scare you like ghost. then angel comes saying everything is fine.

      why so troublesome to perform such wayang which worry me more than before.

      Delete
    3. Wow! SL has really deep pockets, so readily pay authorities incr DC. Shud have paid us more earlier on instead. Then no objectors, no complications, everything on the fast track. We shall soon know if MA info is legit.

      Delete
    4. I gather from MA statement that there's no outstanding issues with SL. We're just waiting for official approval from URA and everything's set. Enbloc accomplished possibly mid April. Is this correct and reasonable reading of the situation?

      Delete
    5. This is the best result, to the extreme.

      Delete
    6. This latest revelation to zaobao by MA is further progress since their 1 Mar letter. Expect Huttons letter soon on these two exciting developments on FB to make it official for SPs. I believe most SPs unaware of zaobao coverage of TC enbloc.

      Delete
  29. Everyone of us knows TC enbloc may not be successful, else we won’t be here talking about it. What do you expect zaobao to write? That LTA will definitely approve and TC enbloc will definitely go ahead?

    ReplyDelete
  30. another public relations article?
    URA approval in mid Apr,MA claimed.

    QUOTE.

    销售该项目的房地产咨询公司Huttons Asia表示,申请已进入最后阶段,如果顺利,预计4月中会批准
    市建局需更多时间审核发展商建路申请 淡滨尼阁重新发展计划推迟 http://www.zaobao.com/news/singapore/story20180305-839900?xtor=CS2-6

    ReplyDelete
  31. Whatever that is being reported or not, whether this enbloc will be successful will be known by 27 Apr. Of course, there are many who will like to see this enbloc fails - those eating sourgrapes, those who sold out too early, those minority owners who still want to stay in TC and those who believe they should be getting at least $2m. Each has his/her own expert opinion. But point arguing now. What can be done has been done. Whatever said here or reported will not change anything. Just wait for the outcome.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am a majority but think we should get at least $2m. So either way (go thru or not) it's fine with me.

      Delete
    2. No one is under any illusions that postings and comments in this blog have any influence on govt policies nor seriously studied by movers and shakers of industry before any groundbreaking decisions. It's a platform for Enbloc hoi polloi, in particular SPs of TC if they so desire, to be heard, exchange views and share information. That's all. Relax while we wait.

      Delete
    3. I am a majority but think we should get at least $2m. So either way (go thru or not) it's fine with me.+1

      Delete
  32. LTA said is a mandate to build this side road inorder to get approve.( business time) SL is in the application. My guess is dollar and cents issue. Who is to build this side road and who to pay .

    ReplyDelete
  33. Pity if only TC Enbloc3 exercise had been concluded before the introduction of LTA's PAFS requirement in November last yr. Circumspection of success, is mostly speculation etc. Dare not wait for the end result.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. WHY DID SL apply until DEC?
      whose fault wasting 4 months?

      Delete
    2. here we go again...

      Delete
  34. how can u guys even trust news from the Lianhe papers...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. why? cam trust ST,BT ?

      Delete
  35. The article is just reporter's personal opinion. Don't lose sleep over it.

    ReplyDelete
  36. On Chinese media today. Nothing new but those interviewed said unlikely SL will give up the deal:
    http://www.80sd.org/guoji/2018/03/05/26538.html

    ReplyDelete
  37. IMHO the deal will be on as the authority will be the biggest winner of $461M with just a signature, beside collecting from SL they will also be collecting $M++ BSD when we buy a new home. When SL launch the new project the authority will also collect more $Millon. So who in the right mind would not take this easy money with just by approving the deal as it makes everyone happy and it also enhance the neighborhood and increase surrounding property value? So the LTA and SL will have to tweet to get the deal done.

    ReplyDelete
  38. TAMPINES COURT: Is the sales still on

    https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2018/2/169153/tampines-court-is-the-sale-still-on

    ReplyDelete
  39. If collective wisdom of team determined the LUP to be approx 130 Mil (24 feb mtg) that's an extra 13 Mil in unaccounted costs. The new DC rates further incr SL financial burden. They're building lesser units than they would like, on a smaller plot than they paid for, forced to construct a 4 lane major road that does nothing to enhance the ambiance of the estate, impedes flow to popular round market. Complete all this in less time due approval delays. With the competition having a head start, already off the blocks. Things are not looking good. Saving grace is the LUP escape clause. They'll need it!

    ReplyDelete
  40. The new DC rates has been taken into account by SL.Despite this, they still go ahead to negotiate with LTA to come to terms to make this enbloc successful.. which is to sacrifice its land for the proposed road construction. taking into consideration tat LTA is the one who suggest this proposal.. i dun see why this enbloc dun stand a good chance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, it's reassuring that the higher DC did not dampen SL interests in TC. LTA imposed on SL that slip road requirement. This has been approved as mentioned during meeting. Only outstanding item was OPP from URA which SL hoped to obtain by end Feb before new DC rates in effect. Seems an inordinately long interval from end Feb to mid Apr. Anyway, the team did promise timely updates, so we can expect Huttons letter soon for official word to clarify all that's come out in past few days.

      Delete
  41. one news appeared for short while in FB..BAD Or good news?

    ReplyDelete