Jan 17, 2018

Rounding up SSD matters.

So, what happened to the SSD owners? I do not personally know any one with a SSD issue so I can only glean what happened next from the sparse information eked out to us on the occasional up update.

It seems after contacting the IRS and pleading their case, they might have gotten a reprieve until after the STB Sales Order. A few months to gather the cash is better than 2 weeks. On 2 Jan 2018 (Sales Order Date) , the FB informed affected owners that they would be contacted soon by the lawyers. 

So the money is probably due now. 

Good luck to them. We might all find ourselves in this boat soon enough if we are unlucky enough to move to an estate which starts up an enbloc attempt soon after. I would fight it tooth and nail, of course, and bring the SSD issue to the forefront. 
My sales proceeds minus $270k? Not on your nelly!

Actually, someone posed two interesting questions (below) to me on this blog. someone who is obviously going through a collective sale and is affected by the SSD issue. 


My answer:

Hello,
Thank you for your kind remarks about the blog - it was never meant to be a source of information but more of a commentary on the ongoing events in my estate since 2007. 

The IRAS will never waiver or reduce the SSD owing. The Law was crafted to reduce the flipping of property by making it unprofitable to do so. Unfortunately, the instrument used was too blunt and genuine, innocent homeowners have found themselves caught up in the net. The Government will have to be pressured into making changes - the same way it was pressured to change the LTSA in 2010 by people complaining to the MPs. letters to the Press, the Straits Times highlighting the issue and gutsy Minority SPs taking the matter to High Court. 

Q: Do you think there is any way that the CSC could have crafted the method of apportionment to cater for owners affected by SSD - in such a way that the eventual proceeds received are equal?

There is no 'one size fits all' method of apportionment. The CSC should propose a method that should not disadvantage one group of owner over another. Having gone through many collective sale EOGMs I can tell you one thing - everyone is looking out for themselves and it would be a hard sell indeed to get the majority of owners to part with even a small portion of their sales proceeds to pay other SPs' tax bills. People will argue that they knew the estate had enbloc potential when they bought it etc. I suppose it depends on the size of the estate and the number of units affected by SSD. If it is a deal breaker, they might consider working the SSD into the MOA formula. It is not impossible for them to do so - but my experience of human nature so far is that people are tough nuts when it comes to money.

But would it fly?

From a  Minority viewpoint, I would say that if the CSC adopted a MOA that favoured SSD owners, then that would be a very strong  reason to make an objection (aka Gilstead Court)'. If they accommodated SSD owners, why not those with recent renovation, why not pay someone's outstanding property tax, or MCST debt? No that door should never be opened in my opinion.  I would say it disadvantaged the minority and might be construed as 'objectionable' by the courts. 

Second Q: Do you think that the unequal amount received by SSD affected owners are grounds for objecting to the method of approval?

I think not because it is not the CSC's fault that the tax laws are crafted as they are. There is no obligation in Law for the CSC to make good all owners' tax or personal debt when considering the MOA.  It would be outrageous to do so. The LTSA is for the protection of Minority owners only and  those especially facing financial loss. The LTSA is clear on what constitutes financial loss and SSD was not envisaged at the time of drafting.

It is not financial loss 'by reason only that his net gain from the sale of his lot will be less than other Subsidiary proprietors'  LTSA Fourth Schedule
.. and that, my friend, is that. 

The SSD issue has never been tackled at High Court - but if it were, I would put my money on the SP losing the case. It's a bitter pill to take - and one I hope will not befall me in my next home. 


All in my humble opinion, of course.

Cheers

38 comments:

  1. Aiyah, even those u hv to pay the highest SSD, still stand reap a profit of $400,000 plus. So whats the big deal?

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  2. I'm not paying until I get official update from CSC. I guess I'll be penalised for CSC's tardiness. But they'll put the blame on MA, URA, SLA,LTA, SL... everybody else except themselves. Only recourse is for SSD folks is to collective see MP.

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    Replies
    1. Be very careful here, the penalty for late payment is punitive. 100% (under 3 months late) or 400% (over 3 months late).
      This is a personal tax issue - the CSC/MA/Lawyer is not responsible if you pay late.

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    2. See MP??? Hahaha

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  3. I started house hunting recently and the asking price is quite high with little bargain margin, owners are talking about more on enbloc rather than selling as individual. We may have high chance to be caught in enbloc and pay high SSD after we move to a "new" house.

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  4. IF the deal cannot go through,can SSD refunded?

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  5. lucky..can get refunded .


    https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Other-Taxes/Stamp-Duty-for-Property/Claiming-Refunds-Remissions-Reliefs/Remissions/Aborted-Sale-and-Purchase-Agreements/

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  6. i am paying SSD,..happy to pay also since i would be making a few times more than what i pay for SSD..and that is typical of ALL SSD owners..those who KPKB are the ones who simply want to make more money..aaa..human greed..how much is ever enough!? everyone is still in the money..so whats the fuss? i already paid mine,..those with cashflow problem will defer it at a certain interest rate (no free lunch from IRAS..rightly so otherwise where got money build roads?) until they can pay with the proceeds from the sale,..so please stop worrying for us.

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    Replies
    1. And are you paying the top rate 16% ($278k) or the 4% ($70k), or in between. You didn't say.

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    2. Therefore you bought in 25/10/16 for $860k. Highly likely a property agent or flipper who bought into the estate after the CSA was in full swing in order to make a quick buck. You already calculated before you signed how much money you were going to make. Your calculated risk has paid off big time.

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    3. yes, its an investment that pays very very well.

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    4. Dear blogger, owner who bought in Oct 2016 did not make the above comment.

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    5. Thank you kind neighbour for paying my SSD of 278:)

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    6. u must also add - after deducting the top SSD, what is your profit??
      En bloc $1.7m minus Purchase price $860K minus SSD $278K equals $562K. Your profit is over half a million dollars, correct?? So??

      And you know TC has embarked on en bloc process since 2015. Dont fool people by saying you dont know. Please.

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    7. Who is the one making noise, hello... you are barking up the wrong tree

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  7. Even though I find this comment highly objectionable and a clear candidate for the Trash can - I am compelled to answer you.

    Every private estate is now enbloc potential. People are circumventing the law by forming consortiums, pooling their money and fronting one or more members to buy into estates with the sole intention of starting a collective sale. There are even open seminars where lawyers are actively advising HDB owners (who are ineligible to buy private properties) on how to circumvent the HDB rules and be part of the enbloc mania. Anyone with a little cash can get in on the act. It is quite disgusting what is happening - rampant greed and people homes being bulldozed for individual profit.
    The Gov knows this is happening but have not acted on it yet.
    Unless you buy HDB, there is no safe haven for enbloc refugees.

    And before you say even HDBs have SERs,,, that will be for a very tiny minority of flats - those in central areas for instance. The vast majority of HDBs will just peter out in real time.

    (no other comment similar in tone to the one above will be published)

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  8. Chill blogger. I dont think anyone are offended by the word or find it objectional. It is just a common expression of frustration. In fact, We are all more frustrated with the deafening silence of the team. Aren't you ?

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    Replies
    1. I disagree. Any decent person would be offended and insulted by such abusive, crass language. Besides, it debases the writer.
      The real test of your true feelings is if you could still 'chill' if such expressions were directed to your nearest and dearest.

      Delete
    2. If you know blogger character well. She would not publish anything that makes her looks bad even though you use the sweetest & most polite language. She is not as democratic as she wants to be label as. I will be surprise if this post is published. Lol.

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    3. @8.2
      The fact that she puts up your post already contradicts everything you have said. Its her blog, not your and not a country, who says she has to be democratic about content anyway? pffftttt..start your own blog then.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous 8.1. Oh please ! 'XXX' is not directed at anyone in this blog, in particular your 'nearest and dearest'. It is just an expression of frustration at the silent treatment from the team. The frustration is building up as days gone by and I won't be surprise more flowery language will be used. Are you still in your grandma's age. If you are so sensitive on this kind of words, you should not be in social media or watch any movies in which the language us are much more worst. Who are you to dictate what can words can be use and what cannot unless your are the blog owner, in which case please shut down your blog !

      (edited by itshometome who does not like foul language on her blog).

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    5. To: 8.3. This blog really sucks. Suka suka she open, suka suka she closed. Must wait for her to suka suka upload at her own time. Cannot edit, cannot delete. She can also pretend to be anonymous to defend herself (who knows, maybe you are her ?. haha ) If there's ever to be round 4, I will start a facebook, no editing, no delete. Rule is very simple, you defame anyone or post any threatening or racist comment, you answer for it. Of course, you boring questions is why come here, when you don't like it. The answer also very simple, the only way to stop me or others is to block us. Don't like what I said ? Close your blog again lor and later you get bored I am sure you will open again. haha

      Delete
    6. Blogger if foul language is your only issue. You don't need the trash can. Publish all the post here to have a fair & exciting debate and just cross the foul language as you just did.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous 8.4- Such language does nothing in furthering or strengthening an argument other than leading people to perceive you as an uneducated juvenile person. You seem to perceive civility for being old fashioned, which exposes your ignorance. Of course, nobody can really do anything if you revel in such childishness. But if that is the case then don't expect to receive much respect. Lastly, you criticize others for trying to dictate to you what you should say, but then go on to dictate to others on their right to be on social media and on the decision to shut down the blog. Are you not contradicting yourself ?

      Delete
    8. 8.5 : The 'xxx' comment is not directed at any particular person (just expression of personal frustration0 but your comment 'uneducated juvenile person, exposes your ignorance, revel in such childishness' is clearly a personal attack. Need I say more ?

      Delete
    9. Anonymous 8.8- Is "xxx" not directed at the blogger? Even if it isn't, my point still stands. You have offered nothing substantial to dispute it. I also noticed you failed to answer to my last question.

      Delete
    10. Anonymous 8.5- Why wait till round 4 ? If you are so confident in your idea, start a facebook discussion now and let the people decide how well it compares against this blog. Or could it be that you know there is little likelihood of a round 4, thereby rendering what you have suggested moot?

      Delete
  9. Ya, like the owner would sell after staying here for so long, with enbloc potential? Their pain is even greater than those that need to pay SSD

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  10. Anonymous 6- Before you insult the intelligence of others, at least try to pretend that you have some intellect as well. As it stands now, the boorish nature of your comment is most telling.

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  11. Vast majority of HDBs will just peter out in real time? Not really, as long as this Govt is in power. No Sporeans will be left homeless

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  12. True..home ownership has been the bedrock of support for the Govt..i wld say if not SERS, the HDB homeowners will be asked to top up lease for another 99 yrs. But for the 99-yr old flats to be demolished and Singaporeans to be left in the lurch,...well, dont think that's gonna happen bro

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  13. Before TC the MA only have 1 enbloc experience of 1 very small development right ? TC would have give them a breakthrough in large enbloc projects. If MA willing to built good relationship with the SPs I am sure they have very bright future in the enbloc market as well as individual sales unit. Sadly they don't bother to do so. Like many other pissed off of SPs I will never use or recommend MA to anyone! I am also pissed off that CSC call them back when they resigned!

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  14. FB now very quiet. Nobody ask any more questions?. I suppose everyone quite happy now and just waiting for B (Bonus day) or D (Doomsday) but just don't know when leh.

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    Replies
    1. Fb quiet, quite happy? We more like silently suffering in shame compare with others. Why still cannot figure it out after 3 wks? Feels like being abandoned and betrayed and our homes undersold. Chairman cannot do much, it's already out of his hands. If we had more responsible, competent ppl in charge things will be different.
      Reply as:

      Delete
  15. FB is quiet as all questions have already asked. Just no answers to them.

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  16. Anonymous 6.O " Manners maketh the Man." Get Some.

    ReplyDelete